Opinion & Analysis
Wishon: The best way to fit lie angle
The higher the loft on the clubhead, the more critical it is to be dynamically fit for the correct lie angle. It is also important, however, to have the lie correctly fit for the fairway woods and hybrids to ensure solid impact consistency.
For the driver, lie angle is less of an accuracy issue due to its lower loft, but if the toe of the driver is severely up in the air in the address position — due to how the length chosen affects the set up of the lie for the golfer — the driver lie should definitely be fit to the golfer if for no other reason than confidence and psychological reasons.
Recent studies and observations have shown that the technique where an ink line is drawn on the back of the ball is better for dynamic lie fitting than using a lie board with tape on the sole of the iron. Plus the ink-line technique can also be done while hitting shots from normal mown grass lies so as to avoid having to hit the club down into a hard surface lie board, a practice which does bother some golfers and cause them to possibly swing differently than they do when hitting shots off grass.
The ink line on the back of the ball technique for dynamic lie fitting is simple and logical. A heavy ink line is drawn on the ball with a Sharpie pen. The ball is placed on the ground with the line vertical and facing the clubhead. After impact, a faint image of the ink line is transferred to the clubface. If the line is perfectly vertical on the clubface, the lie of the club is correct for the golfer. If the ink line tilts in an angle up toward the toe side of the face, the lie of the club that was hit is too upright so the correct lie has to be flatter than the lie of the club being hit. Vice versa — if the ink line angles up toward the heel side of the face, the correct lie has to be more upright than the lie of the test club.
In the near future, kits for this technique of dynamic lie fitting will become available that will include face labels with graduated lines to make the determination of the correct lie much easier and more definitive.
For the highest level of accuracy, dynamic lie fitting should be done as the last procedure in the fitting, using a test club(s) that possess every one of the golfer’s determined fitting specs for the clubhead model, length, shaft, swing weight (MOI) and grip size. In lieu of this, a test club for proper dynamic lie evaluation should at least have the length, shaft and swing weight that is found best for the golfer.
In an ideal world, the dynamic lie test should be done with each one of the golfer’s clubs. Obviously, this will take a good bit more time to do. As such, if time becomes an issue, it is OK to perform the dynamic lie test with every other club or even every third club, with the lies of the in-between irons calculated from the actual dynamic lies determined by each test club.
Related
- What length should your clubs be?
- What lofts should your clubs be?
- Face angle is crucial for a proper fitting
- The best way to fit lie angle
- How to choose the right club head design
- Tom Wishon’s keys to set makeup
- Getting the right size grip, time after time
- What shaft weight should you play?
- What swing weight should your clubs be?
- What shaft flex should I use?
This story is part of a 10-part series from Tom Wishon on professional club fitting.
Club Junkie
Tour Edge Exotics mini driver review + TaylorMade Spider ZT Max first look – Club Junkie
On this episode of Club Junkie, I put the new Tour Edge Exotics Mini Driver to the test and break down the performance, forgiveness, distance, and where it fits compared to a traditional driver or strong fairway wood. If you have been curious about adding a mini driver to the bag, this one is worth a look.
I also dive into the new TaylorMade Spider ZT Max putter that was recently spotted and discuss the growing zero torque putter trend. Plus, there is a closer look at the new Project X Titan Yellow shaft showing up on the PGA Tour and what makes it different from other profiles currently out there.
Opinion & Analysis
AVL: We’re talking about practice! My best tips for taking your game to the course
With the beginning of June on the horizon and courses rounding into peak condition for the season, it’s time to hone the finer skills that often get rusty over the winter. More sunlight also means more time to get out on the course and work on your game.
Whether it’s the practice green or the driving range, there’s always something to improve—whether you’re enjoying the fresh air or preparing for a weekend game or tournament. You can work on drills or freestyle around the green, and friendly competition is a great way to sharpen your skills.
While there are endless ways to get better at golf, I’m going to focus on practicing around the green. Let’s take a look at a few things to keep in mind as we head into the summer months.
Drills
From the driving range to the practice green, it’s important to incorporate drills into your routine. Years ago, I spent a weekend working on my short game with James Sieckmann. He recommended doing drill work for 5–10 minutes, then returning to your main practice.
This way, you create a balance between structured drills and real-world scenarios, so you’re not confined to “perfect” situations. For example, hitting the same three-foot putt over and over is good for repetition, but after a while, it becomes less interactive for your brain.
My approach is to use a putting trainer with a narrow gate for the ball to pass through, or simply place tees just outside the width of the ball. I’ll hit a series of four putts through the gate for three sets. Then, from a similar distance, I’ll hit four putts without the training aid and repeat that sequence three times.
Next, I’ll hit a number of 15–25 foot putts in a random fashion, then circle back to repeat the short putt drills with and without the training aid.
This breaks up the rhythm of hitting short putts with the training aid. When you hit the same short putts over and over, it’s easy to get into a groove—which is great for the drill, but not reflective of actual course play. While finding a rhythm is fundamental for drills, I like to introduce variation with longer putts to keep things realistic.
Game Mode
Once you’ve established a foundation with drills, it’s time to simulate on-course scenarios. This is where a few practice games come in handy.
One that I’ve been enjoying lately involves putting 10- to 15-footers with two balls. If I make the putt, great! If I miss, I pull the missed ball back a putter length. Suddenly, that little tap-in becomes a nerve-wracking three-footer—at least at first. As you get better at this game, those three- and five-footers become much more comfortable and routine.
It may sound cliché, but each shot is just what it is—it’s how we react that makes the difference. I like this game because it blends the pressure of on-course putting with the consequence of leaving yourself a much longer putt than usual.
Another game I like is one I recently learned from Brad Faxon. Place three tees in a line at four different locations around the hole: one at 3 feet, one at 6 feet, and one at 8 feet. The 3- and 6-foot putts count as par, and the 8-footer is for birdie.
This game keeps you focused on scoring and helps you get into a competitive mindset. You can even think about this putting game while you’re on the course. I just started playing it, and last week I couldn’t get better than two under par.
Competition
Competition during practice is when drills and games come to life, and you start to see results. For me, nothing beats a putting contest with a friend or two. In the right setting, these contests can become talking points for the whole season.
Match play, a game of 21, or simply seeing who can make the most one-putts (with a small prize on the line) are all great ways to simulate real on-course pressure. Recently, I played in a putting contest where one competitor made back-to-back 30- and 50-foot putts. As they say, expect your opponent to make every putt—and he nearly did. That’s impressive, and it’s something you see on the course, too: you have to stay committed to your game plan, no matter what.
When it comes to practice, it’s important to blend feedback from recent rounds with the fundamentals you want to reinforce. Drills, games, and competition—from the driving range to the putting green—form the backbone of skills you’ll rely on during actual rounds.
Finding the right balance is something we’re all working on, one practice session at a time. With the beginning of June on the horizon and courses rounding into peak condition for the season, it’s time to hone the finer skills that often get rusty over the winter. More sunlight also means more time to get out on the course and work on your game. Whether it’s the practice green or the driving range, there’s always something to improve—whether you’re enjoying the fresh air or preparing for a weekend game or tournament. You can work on drills or freestyle around the green, and friendly competition is a great way to sharpen your skills. While there are endless ways to get better at golf, I’m going to focus on practicing around the green. Let’s take a look at a few things to keep in mind as we head into the summer months.
Drills
From the driving range to the practice green, it’s important to incorporate drills into your routine. Years ago, I spent a weekend working on my short game with James Sieckmann. He recommended doing drill work for 5–10 minutes, then returning to your main practice. This way, you create a balance between structured drills and real-world scenarios, so you’re not confined to “perfect” situations. For example, hitting the same three-foot putt over and over is good for repetition, but after a while, it becomes less interactive for your brain.
My approach is to use a putting trainer with a narrow gate for the ball to pass through, or simply place tees just outside the width of the ball. I’ll hit a series of four putts through the gate for three sets. Then, from a similar distance, I’ll hit four putts without the training aid and repeat that sequence three times. Next, I’ll hit a number of 15–25 foot putts in a random fashion, then circle back to repeat the short putt drills with and without the training aid.
This breaks up the rhythm of hitting short putts with the training aid. When you hit the same short putts over and over, it’s easy to get into a groove—which is great for the drill, but not reflective of actual course play. While finding a rhythm is fundamental for drills, I like to introduce variation with longer putts to keep things realistic.
Game Mode
Once you’ve established a foundation with drills, it’s time to simulate on-course scenarios. This is where a few practice games come in handy. One that I’ve been enjoying lately involves putting 10- to 15-footers with two balls. If I make the putt, great! If I miss, I pull the missed ball back a putter length.
Suddenly, that little tap-in becomes a nerve-wracking three-footer—at least at first. As you get better at this game, those three- and five-footers become much more comfortable and routine. It may sound cliché, but each shot is just what it is—it’s how we react that makes the difference. I like this game because it blends the pressure of on-course putting with the consequence of leaving yourself a much longer putt than usual.
Another game I like is one I recently learned from Brad Faxon. Place three tees in a line at four different locations around the hole: one at 3 feet, one at 6 feet, and one at 8 feet. The 3- and 6-foot putts count as par, and the 8-footer is for birdie.
This game keeps you focused on scoring and helps you get into a competitive mindset. You can even think about this putting game while you’re on the course. I just started playing it, and last week I couldn’t get better than two under par.
Competition
Competition during practice is when drills and games come to life, and you start to see results. For me, nothing beats a putting contest with a friend or two. In the right setting, these contests can become talking points for the whole season. Match play, a game of 21, or simply seeing who can make the most one-putts (with a small prize on the line) are all great ways to simulate real on-course pressure. Recently, I played in a putting contest where one competitor made back-to-back 30- and 50-foot putts. As they say, expect your opponent to make every putt—and he nearly did. That’s impressive, and it’s something you see on the course, too: you have to stay committed to your game plan, no matter what.
When it comes to practice, it’s important to blend feedback from recent rounds with the fundamentals you want to reinforce. Drills, games, and competition—from the driving range to the putting green—form the backbone of skills you’ll rely on during actual rounds. Finding the right balance is something we’re all working on, one practice session at a time.
For Korean golfers, we always look forward to the last of the kkot-saem-chu-I for the true start of a new golf season. The term refers to a cold snap, but literally translates as “winter being jealous of the flowers beginning to bloom, thus lashing out one final time before surrendering to spring”.
A rather poetic mouthful packed into a short expression.
Koreans can be like that. Understated, yet oddly expressive at the same time. And nowhere is this more true on the golf course and in our golf bags. In fact, I suspect many Korean golfers look forward to new apparel and accessory drops more than they do actual equipment launches each year.
At this point, Korean golf fashion may exist on its own timeline. (courtesy of @seonbi_golfer)
There is ample evidence to support that suspicion. Korea is the world’s third-largest golf market behind the United States and Japan, yet its appetite for golf apparel exceeds that of both countries combined. Recent estimates suggest that Korea accounts for nearly 40 percent of the global golf apparel market, placing it among the world’s most influential golf fashion markets and punching well above its size.
Simply, we care deeply about how new golf clubs look and feel, but enjoy looking good while swinging them even more.
Golfers in the West may laugh and say that golf is played on a course, not a fashion runway. Perhaps. But what’s the harm in trying to look and feel good, if the added self-confidence can help actual performance? It certainly seems to have worked for Jason Day, who may have unlocked a new stats category: dormant strokes gained. Coincidence?
During the COVID-era, estimates placed the market near $9 billion, an astonishing figure for a single country.
As a proud member of Gen X, I’ve witnessed the highs and lows of golf fashion firsthand. The pleated trousers and wing-tipped shoes of Jack Nicklaus, the stylish plus-fours and knickers of Payne Stewart, the baggy black trousers and fitted mock-necks of Tiger Woods, and the thigh-hugging athletic tailoring of Rory McIlroy. Golf fashion, like the golf swing itself, has rarely stood still.
But nowhere have those trends shifted, evolved, and been scrutinized quite as relentlessly as in Korea. Here, golf fashion moves faster than fairway gossip, and consumers dissect brands with a level of discernment that can be both impressive and mildly terrifying. New brands are studied, judged, embraced, or dismissed with startling efficiency.
The result is a consumer base with one of the sharpest eyes for quality and authenticity anywhere in the world. It is difficult to quantify, but easy to recognize. Clean lines without trying too hard. Luxury mixed with utility. Trend awareness balanced by restraint and purpose.
It’s golf fashion shaped by one of the world’s most style-literate cities, something I like to call Seoul Sensibilities, referring to the taste level forged by a uniquely competitive environment.
And increasingly, global brands have noticed.
Many golf brands in Korea have their own flagship shops dedicated to apparel only
Titleist understood this years ago, when its apparel business in Korea took on a life of its own under new ownership and local direction. What had once been a straightforward extension of an iconic equipment giant became something sharper and more premium. By going all in on the serious Tour-player look (I couldn’t even fit into their XL sizes), Titleist struck the right chord with Korean consumers and helped its fledgling apparel business break into the mainstream. Titleist became a household name even for non-golfers who wore its caps, shirts, and windbreakers in daily life. In many ways, it proved that even heritage golf brands could carry real fashion credibility when viewed through a Korean lens.
Several years later, PXG took a page out of Titleist’s playbook and followed suit. Korean consumers helped transform the brand from one known largely for irons and loud commercials into something broader and more stylish. PXG apparel’s growth in Korea was explosive, where it found an early audience and turned the category into something more than mere logo merchandise. It is still hard to walk anywhere in Seoul without seeing its palindrome logo.
Malbon’s meteoric rise in the United States was genuine, but its ascent into a global golf lifestyle brand owes much to Korea, where it was elevated by a market already fluent in modern golf style. Korea did not simply embrace Malbon. It pressure-tested the concept, refined its appeal, and helped push it into the global spotlight.
As such, new brands may arrive from abroad, but more often than not, their sharpest evolution happens here. If a brand can earn credibility in Seoul, it’s deemed to have passed one of the toughest style audits in the game.
That is why the next meaningful chapter may not come from outside, but from a Korean brand moving in the opposite direction, carrying those Seoul Sensibilities outward as K-pop once did.
Play young Stay dope.
From Seoul, With Intent
Khalhon is a label that feels less like a trend-chasing newcomer and more like the product of a market that has already seen everything. Golfers here have long been surrounded by luxury logos, technical fabrics, and tour uniforms disguised as lifestyle wear and vice-versa. In other words, novelty alone rarely lasts here, and the Koreans seems to understand that instinctively.
Its style language leans into clean silhouettes, relaxed but tailored proportions, muted palettes, and premium materials that speak quietly but confidently. There is a modern city aesthetic running through it all, with strong layering pieces, thoughtful textures, and subtle branding that suggests sophistication rather than demanding attention.
“Built for the course. Designed beyond it.”
Most importantly, the garments seem designed to blur the line between golfwear and everyday style. Shirts, trousers, knitwear, and outer layers move comfortably between a game of screen golf, a lunch reservation, an airport gate, or an afternoon coffee in Gangnam with friends.
It raises the question of whether this is golfwear that happens to look good off the course, or everyday clothing that performs beautifully on the fairways.
Personally, I have long appreciated Nike Golf for its clean, athletic modernization of golf attire. It also has the useful side effect of making me look like a more serious golfer than I probably am. But off the course, there are times when being instantly identified as the golf guy in a crowd of non-golfers can feel a touch self-conscious.
“Built for the course. Designed beyond it.”
That is part of what drew me to Khalhon, which seemed to blend golf and everyday wear naturally. While some of the outfits may be slightly beyond my personal confidence level, the brand also offers tasteful options for older guys like me who still want to express a little personality without regretting the decision later.
These are not simply flashy outfits worn on the course and then banished to the closet until the next tee time. They work surprisingly well off the course too, and I suspect many of the pieces will still look right a couple of years from now, which would certainly be kinder to my wallet than most golf fashion trends tend to be.
And perhaps that broader lifestyle positioning also helps explain why someone like Sean Wotherspoon would find Khalhon creatively interesting in the first place.
“Built for the course. Designed beyond it.”
“Korea is not only one of the most fashion-forward golf markets in the world, but one of the most fashion-forward markets globally. Korea is ahead, and I love to watch and try to catch up.” – Sean Wotherspoon, Creative Director at Khalhon
Seoul and Beyond
If Khalhon’s rise says something about where Korean golf fashion is today, its relationship with Sean Wotherspoon says even more about where it is heading.
For readers less familiar with Sean Wotherspoon, his arrival at Khalhon is not some routine celebrity endorsement or influencer collaboration. In design and streetwear circles, Wotherspoon is regarded as one of the more influential creative voices of his generation, particularly when it comes to blending nostalgia, storytelling, and contemporary culture into products that people can connect with.
He first gained widespread attention through his now-famous Nike sneaker collaborations, where his vintage-inspired designs and instinct for color helped turn him into one of the defining artists of the late-2010s sneaker era. His work gradually expanded beyond footwear into apparel, automotive collaborations, collectibles, and broader lifestyle design.
Modern golf style now extends well beyond the fairways, where performance and functionality are largely expected by default. And while plenty of brands already make technically competent golfwear, Khalhon seems more focused on designing clothes people would genuinely want to wear even after the round ends.
And when guys at Wotherspoon’s level show genuine interest in working with a Korean golf brand as its new Creative Director, fashion circles tend to sit up and pay attention. There’s already a huge buzz among the fashion-conscious here about upcoming collabs with iconic sports stars and brands.
“My creative direction for Khalhon is disruptive, colorful, nostalgic, and modern. My goal is to blend these avenues seamlessly within each collection.” – Sean Wotherspoon
In chatting with Sean, what stood out most to me was how genuinely energized he sounded about the project itself. Despite having already worked across and countless other creative spaces, he described golf as a completely fresh category for him, saying that Khalhon “will be an amazing vehicle for my design work.”
At the same time, his enthusiasm seemed tied just as much to Korea itself. He spoke openly about admiring Korea’s fashion culture while repeatedly insisting he is still a terrible golfer.
There was something oddly refreshing about that humility. Rather than sounding like a celebrity parachuting into golf simply because the category suddenly became fashionable, Sean sounded genuinely curious about what Korea might do with the category next.
And perhaps that is what makes Khalhon feel interesting right now. The brand feels less like a trend-chaser and more like the natural result of a market now confident enough to export its own point of view.
For years, global brands came to Korea to sharpen their image against one of the most discerning audiences anywhere. Now, a Korean label appears ready to send those Seoul Sensibilities outward instead.
Which brings us back to kkot-saem-chu-i.
That final cold snap before spring always arrives with a reminder that seasons are changing, whether we notice it immediately or not. Golf fashion feels a little like that right now as well, as the old boundaries between sport, streetwear, luxury, and everyday style continue to soften.
And somewhere in Seoul, a Korean golf label already seems prepared for whatever season comes next. I just hope they have everything in my size.
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Lee
May 20, 2016 at 4:46 am
TOM –
“We’re working on that in terms of a face label with gradation lines printed on the label in degree increments so you could put the label on the face, hit the ball with the vertical ink line, see the transfer of the line to the label and then know the lie change based on which degree line on the label is parallel to the ink line.”
Just wondering if these are available to the market yet? I could use some for testing the lie of my new Wishon 771 irons! Hit the course today with some fairly inconsistent results, and felt I was getting a number of toe/ground hits in spite of my custom fitting by a top professional club-fitter. We did the final fitting off of a black board, not the method you describe here.
gerry caradonna
Mar 28, 2016 at 1:10 am
Anyone know of a good club fitter in palm beach FL. to get my loft and lie angle checked i went to Dicks sporting goods seems like they just dont have the time or dont care just try to rush you
Phil
Jul 13, 2015 at 11:10 am
I have the utmost respect for Tom and true gratitude for sharing his sage knowledge here. As a golfer who recently purchased some club building / adjusting equipment out of frustration with big box golf store workmanship (hard to blame them with the prices they offer & volume they must process daily) I was pleased to read this article. Since day one of becoming a golfer it was clear to me that hitting off a lie board was not a quality fit and this has always stuck in the back of my mind. The board sits above the stance for one, the golfer is adjusting the swing to ‘pick the ball’, they can easily hit it slightly fat deflect head first and slide that angle into the ball etc. etc. Hitting off grass into a marked ball is such a simple solution – the only way to go.
That said…. and I know the focus is on strictly on fitting here… The vast majority of golfers often have too upright a swing to begin with and end up on their toes displaying less than great leg/foot work – again, I know this is an issue the fitter is not responsible for. Still, having either standard or purposely flat lies teaches / requires more engagement of the lower body and foot work for these golfers to achieve a desired ball flight. It wouldn’t be outside the club builders / fitters arena to recommend, fit, build a couple of ‘practice clubs’ designed for this intent. It also wouldn’t be wrong if the fitter, seeing egregious ott etc. issues, offers the golfer the option to shave a degree with the understanding that golfer is taking lessons. Just my 2 cents, maybe I’m missing some points, regardless I’m really glad to learn about this fitting technique – Thanks!
Pingback: A Visual Effect of Lie Angle • Green Lantern Golf
Dave
Feb 28, 2015 at 7:44 pm
Tom,
This posting just came in to me and I can say it is timely. I fit a player today in the Weathers Facility here at IU using the sharpie method. He came to me asking about the differences between the lie board and the sharpie method. I had previously fit a pair of Vokey wedges to 2*upright which is what his swing calls for. After the fitting of all the clubs we found that most of the special order clubs were -1.5* from his needed specs. Bending them upright put his swing plane and impact right on spec for him. I suspect that I could have used the lie board and gotten to the same place with this player, but the line on the face of the irons and the change from perpendicular to the score lines, was easy enough for him to see and be convinced of the need for a change.
Mat
Feb 2, 2015 at 5:39 pm
Just a sidenote – some manufacturers go 0.5º between irons, and others 0.75º. Thus, one brand to another can cause a degree difference at the longest and shortest irons…
Dave S
Jan 29, 2015 at 1:28 pm
Edit: I know i can get them adjusted for pretty cheap at a local Golfsmith ($5 per club), but that would require me to know exactly how to bend them. I guess what I’m really asking is whether there’s a cheap way to have my dynamic lie tested?
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 4:01 pm
In all honesty, to get this done right so you have no doubt, you need to find a good, experienced clubmaker in your area who can both do the dynamic lie fitting test to tell him exactly how much to bend each iron so it is right for your swing, and then to do the bends as determined. You can try to ask the person at GS if they also can put you through a dynamic lie fitting test, if they know how to do that and could do that for you. I don’t know if retail stores like this can do that or would do it.
To find a good clubmaker, I would advise you head to the websites of the AGCP (Association of Golf Clubfitting Professionals) and the ICG (International Clubmakers’ Guild) and use their search tools to see if there is a clubmaker in reasonable proximity to your location. Google them and you’ll find their sites and on their sites you can find their locator search tool. The bending is only half of the task – you need someone competent in conducting a proper dynamic lie fitting test which tells how much each of your irons needs to be bent to fit you.
Nick
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:57 pm
Dave – Golfsmith does an above average job of training its fitters and techs. While a certified club builder is preferable, they should be able to do a good job for you.
I recommend printing out the specs of your irons and measuring the lie angle of the clubs you’re testing to get the best results. You need to establish a base line because clubs are not always built exactly to spec and/or lie angles can change a bit over time with use.
Dave S
Jan 29, 2015 at 11:30 am
Is there a way to get the lie adjusted on my irons for relatively cheap?
Erich
Jan 29, 2015 at 8:54 am
I swing a few degrees left so I need some toe down or I will pull the ball to the left. Your lie needs to start the ball on your target line, it doesn’t have to be perfect by robot standards. In the wedges if they are fit for my full swing then I will definitely pull my wedges since I play 2* upright. I must play flatter wedges so I don’t pull pitches and dig the heel in on short shots since my hands aren’t as high at impact. His information is great but nothing new.
Ryan
Jan 28, 2015 at 9:55 pm
Hi Tom,
I was just wondering why the lie angle should be the last thing checked in a fitting. I was taught that checking for lie angle was one of the first things that you do and I’ve done all my fittings that way. I have always used the dry erase marker method and I double check the angle at the end of each fitting. I made the assumption that once you found a lie angle that worked, you had a pretty good idea what lie angle to try on all the clubs.I was just hoping you could shed some light as to why you do it last. Thanks!
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:37 am
RYAN
We recommend doing the lie test and final lie adjustment after everything else is determined in the fitting because that way it takes everything into account that could affect the dynamic lie results in the lie fitting. Shaft droop – if you are being lie tested with the right fit club for you, it then takes the flex/bend profile, headweight effect on shaft bending, length effect on shaft bending all into account to reveal what your best lie will be for YOUR custom fit clubs. If you test with a club that has a different shaft flex/bend profile, length, headweight then the results you see could be different than the results you would see with the golfer’s final fit clubs. Do understand we are talking smaller details here but doing it this way just to be 100% sure the dynamic lie is as accurate as it can be for the golfer with his final fit in the clubs. Usually if you do your dynamic lie test with an iron that is of the same length and close enough in shaft and swingweight, that will typically be good enough.
Jeff
Jan 28, 2015 at 5:42 pm
So bored with this guy.
Golfrnut
Jan 28, 2015 at 6:24 pm
Guys around here are probably much more tired of the trolling comments from people like yourself than getting useful information from people like Tom. When you have something to bring to the table, then speak, otherwise you can just climb back down in the hole that you came from.
JC
Jan 28, 2015 at 6:28 pm
I know right. Darn him for taking time out of his day to write articles that could help people play better golf! SMH
Mark
Jan 28, 2015 at 4:45 pm
Is there a “rule of thumb” regarding how far the lie angle needs to be adjusted based on how far from vertical the line on the club face diverges? Is it a 1:1 relationship? (1 degree off from vertical means that you will have to adjust the club 1 degree).
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:45 am
MARK:
We’re working on that in terms of a face label with gradation lines printed on the label in degree increments so you could put the label on the face, hit the ball with the vertical ink line, see the transfer of the line to the label and then know the lie change based on which degree line on the label is parallel to the ink line. It’s simple geometry and really, one could do this with a protractor on the face to get pretty close because it is a 1:1 relationship in degrees off vertical on the face. But the labels will make it easier to do (as long as you get the label on the face correctly !!! – HA, there’s always a kicker, right?!!)
Be aware that by no means is this ink line method ours or anyone’s current discovery. It was first brought out by a very nice man and pioneer in repair and clubmaking by the name of Bud Blankenship for his former company in the 80s/90s called GolfTek in Idaho. Bud passed away unfortunately some years ago and never got the credit he deserved for some of the innovative things he contributed to the earlier days of clubfitting. He was a good friend of many in the industry from back then and it is right to give credit where credit is due on this.
Albatross85
Jan 28, 2015 at 3:47 pm
Dry erase marker works best and leaves nothing permanent
Nick
Jan 28, 2015 at 1:53 pm
I have been using the sharpie method in my fittings for several years. My only caution is that you must be extra careful to get the line on the ball as close to vertical as possible – otherwise your results will be inaccurate of inconsistent.
Lie angle does play a role in where we strike the ball on the face. As a general rule for irons, flattening the lie will move impact to the toe and bending the club more upright will move impact to the heel. In my experience, however, golfers have more success when the lie angle is adjusted to optimize turf interaction and other specs (shaft length, swing weight, stiffness, etc.) are adjusted to promote center face contact.
50jay
Jan 28, 2015 at 12:37 pm
Great Article!
I have a question for Tom:
My last lie fitting was done on a lie board and the result was 2*UP. I had them bent back then. Even though the lies are still 2*UP, my natural tendency would be to hit them on the toe side of the blade. When I had them checked again with a lie board it indicated me that I needed even more upright clubs.
Could it be that the lie board is giving me the wrong answer and that my lies are in fact too upright for me considering my clubs are at the proper length? I just want to understand the logic behind all of this.
Thank you Tom, your input is greatly appreciated on this site!
(I will perform the ink test as soon as possible.)
Kelly
Jan 28, 2015 at 7:55 pm
This is similar to my fittings. One of my swing flaws is that I will come in with high hands. In addition to high hands I have a swing speed on the higher side. Using a lie board I’be been fit or maroon dot Pings before. I’ve also been fit for a very tip stiff shaft with very upright clubs before. Truthfully I was never comfortable with these clubs from a looks and shaft flex standpoint. I decided that I would rather feel better about the other factors than be to concerned about what the lie board showed. I do plan on trying the ink line as a test.
Thanks to Tom for another informative article.
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 4:05 pm
50jay
What you report is precisely why the astute fitters are switching away from lie boards to use the ink line method. Somewhere on YOU TUBE is a slo mo video that captures exactly the weird anomaly that can cause a lie board test to result in an errant toe side impact on the sole. Fascinating video. It shows that right when the face hits the ball before the sole touches the board/ground, the reaction of the head right at impact is to cause the toe to tilt down more, which is what puts the toe end of the sole on the board. So my bet is that’s what’s happening with your more upright readings. You will know for sure if you do the ink line test.
Mike
Jan 28, 2015 at 12:24 pm
Great stuff Tom! Is there any correlation between heel/toe contact and lie angle? Thanks!
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:56 am
MIKE
Not 100% sure what you are asking for sure but it is true that if sole contact is on the heel or toe side, then for sure this is a basic indicator that whatever the lies of your irons are now is not what they need to be to allow the sole to travel level to the ground through impact. The old way of dynamic lie fitting involving the lie board would always teach that for each 1/4″ that the center of the sole impact mark with the lie board was off from the very center of the sole, that represented a 1* change. So for example if the average/consistent center of the sole rub mark was 1/1″ on the heel side of face center, that indicated a 2* flatter lie bend to the iron and vice versa for upright if the center of the sole rub mark was 1/2″ toward the toe side of sole center. Hope this hit what you were asking about.
Bb
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:52 am
Great article . Bad clubs , over priced
Clubs have no meat to them
Ted
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:43 am
I’ve did this type of lie angle testing after reading about Tom’s method. It works, its easy, and can be done for the price of a Sharpie.
Max
Jan 28, 2015 at 11:37 am
Tom posted this info in one of the forums a few years ago and I tried it and found my irons were too upright. So easy to test and I no longer hook my short irons now that the lies have been adjusted accordingly. Definitely try this if you hook your short irons or hit them left a lot.
Awedge333
Jan 28, 2015 at 5:54 pm
OK, my long clubs trend right – shout clubs trend left. 7-8 irons go straight…..
What does this mean???
Awedge333
Jan 28, 2015 at 5:56 pm
Sorry, short not shout….. that only comes after impact!
Tom Wishon
Jan 29, 2015 at 10:52 am
AWedge
This could be a situation in which you come into impact in a little different posture/spine angle/hands position with each of the different segments of your iron set. That’s pretty common because the lengths and total weights of our irons are all different from each other so with some golfers it very much can affect their position at impact which then affects the lie position of the clubhead through impact. How to resolve this is to do the dynamic lie test with each and every one of the clubs, and not to do it as most do which is to dyn lie test one iron only and then extrapolate all the other lies in 1* increments from that one test iron.
Clubfitters who do an every club lie test almost always find that when it is all done and they look at the actual final lie measurements for every iron, the lies won’t go in a nice 1* increment from club to club. Yes, this takes a lot longer to do. But in a case such as what you describe in your irons, it becomes the best way to try to resolve what you are seeing.
If after doing this you still find right/left results with different segments of the set then the place to investigate will be, 1) are the lengths absolutely right for you, your height/wrist to floor, your tempo/transition, ability, 2) are the swingweights and total weights of the irons right for you and your tempo/transition, sense of feel for your timing and rhythm in the swing.